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Perceptions - Songs of innocence and of experience [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Douglas Spencer

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Perceptions [May. 9th, 2007|11:14 am]
Douglas Spencer
In a reply to one of my comments elsewhere, someone used the expression "money-hungry wankers like you". There's no doubt, from the context, that the "you" referred to me; neither the original post and ensuing thread, nor previous discussions with the person concerned, had made reference to money or money-hunger.

There's a possible inference that the person concerned has held this perception of me sincerely, and for a while.

Poll #981475 Perceptions

Where -10 is "disagree strongly" and 10 is "agree strongly": The use of the term "money-hungry wankers like you" suggests the person concerned has formed an accurate impression of what DougS is like.

Mean: -8.36 Median: -10 Std. Dev 2.85
0(0.0%)
-10
14(56.0%)
-9
3(12.0%)
-8
4(16.0%)
-7
0(0.0%)
-6
1(4.0%)
-5
0(0.0%)
-4
1(4.0%)
-3
0(0.0%)
-2
0(0.0%)
-1
0(0.0%)
0
2(8.0%)
1
0(0.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
0(0.0%)
6
0(0.0%)
7
0(0.0%)
8
0(0.0%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
0(0.0%)

Where -10 is "disagree strongly" and 10 is "agree strongly": Mental health issues, while not an excuse, can be a legitimate explanation.

Mean: 3.12 Median: 4 Std. Dev 4.31
0(0.0%)
-10
0(0.0%)
-9
0(0.0%)
-8
0(0.0%)
-7
1(4.2%)
-6
0(0.0%)
-5
1(4.2%)
-4
0(0.0%)
-3
0(0.0%)
-2
0(0.0%)
-1
0(0.0%)
0
7(29.2%)
1
1(4.2%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
1(4.2%)
4
3(12.5%)
5
4(16.7%)
6
1(4.2%)
7
1(4.2%)
8
1(4.2%)
9
0(0.0%)
10
3(12.5%)


Comments are screened.
LinkReply

Comments:
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 10:30 am (UTC)
They were very evidently not having a laugh.
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[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 10:46 am (UTC)
And as for context, it was in reply to a comment in which I suggested they might wish to feature Mickey Smith in a piece of fanfic.
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(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 11:28 am (UTC)
Well, since I'm not good at picking up on people's states of mind I thought it was worth measuring whether it's a widespread perception before I proceed to do what you suggest.
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(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]From: darth_tigger
2007-05-09 03:23 pm (UTC)
I'd agree with that analysis. On LJ you mention money and particularly invoices far more than average (for a start, the average person doesn't have to send out invoices, the money just magically appears in their bank account), so some people might think that means you care about money more. I'd disagree and say that it just means you are forced to think about its method of arrival more than average, like I am.

Which reminds me, I have some invoices to raise too. Like you, I've not got round to them yet. This probably means I'm not money-hungry enough either.

Feel free to screen or unscreen as you wish.
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(Screened comment)
[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 11:18 am (UTC)
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[User Picture]From: peaceful_fox
2007-05-09 11:42 am (UTC)
You can unscreen this.

You know, I've never ever seen any post of yours that would lead me to believe that you were "money hungry". Sheesh. Are they mixing you up with someone else? I've seen your posts in a variety of forums and never came to that conclusion. Was this in a political forum, or a business forum?
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[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 11:48 am (UTC)
Not in a political forum, in an individual's own journal -- but the person concerned is a highly politicised person.
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[User Picture]From: hawkida
2007-05-09 11:49 am (UTC)
Suggestions for "evidence" of money hunger:

- Semi regular posts about how you need to invoice people.
- Conservative (traditionally assumed to be very capitalist and money oriented types)
- Comments regarding Anne's out-earning you as being a good thing because two incomes are better than one.

I'd say the work pattern you've fallen into suggests otherwise, but then you don't have a mortgage or rent to pay which is a big chunk of most peoples' income. You generally tend to seem quite well off and I suspect if you got close to the poverty line you'd make a number of adjustments to your lifestyle to keep you well above it. I think there are far more money oriented people than you and evidence of hunger is sketchy, but I can see where the assumption might come from.

As for wanker... well one tends to assume these things and avoid questioning them in polite company. ;)

Is there any reason why you're not letting your readers see the source material, here? I'd like to see the comment in context.
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[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 12:01 pm (UTC)
See peaceful_fox's observation and my reply. It's conceivable that it's related to my conservatism -- there's no distinction in British English between "you"-singular and "you"-plural.

I have already made adjustments to keep me well above the poverty line now that my income has dropped -- giving up plans to go to Japan despite holding a Worldcon membership, for example.

I think there's a valid distinction to be drawn between living within one's means and being a money-hungry wanker.

The source material isn't available. The original post still exists, but my comment and the reply which prompted the poll have both been deleted. The original post had no related content and there was nothing in my comment which was related to the reply concerned.
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[User Picture]From: seph_hazard
2007-05-09 12:02 pm (UTC)
What happened after Eastercon (when I had no money at all) is a perfect example of you being exactly the opposite of money-hungry, I feel. It's not something I'd ever think of describing you as, though if asked I would describe you as 'generous'.

Max's points are, I suppose, valid as examples of why someone might think that, but only if they've never met you!
(Reply) (Thread)
[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 12:06 pm (UTC)
... and this is someone for whom I'd cheerfully have done the same in similar circumstances.

We've met, but not in a situation where karmic fanac could be accumulated.
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[User Picture]From: seph_hazard
2007-05-09 12:24 pm (UTC)
FFS, people are crap. I've honestly got no idea why someone would think that of you, especially if they've met you. It's a long way off the mark.

Although actually, thinking about it, could this have been a political statement made in a rather poor way, attributing it straight to you? (You've heard Sink The Mayflower's Family Silver...)
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[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 12:34 pm (UTC)
That's looking steadily more likely.
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[User Picture]From: seph_hazard
2007-05-09 12:43 pm (UTC)
Yep, this is a Family Silver moment. I used to write songs about stuff like this. You're not like that, though, and I've never for a second thought you were. I wish people would learn to attack the ISSUE and not the PERSON when they disagree.

"First we tried the telephones-you took it, line and hook
We advertised and lied and cried-we did it by the book
And then you sold your shares for a pound or two next day
And now we own the company, and now you're gonna pay

We're selling off the family silver, making lots of money
Selling off the family silver, the immediate way
We're selling off the family silver, going for milk and honey
Flogging what we don't own, and taking it today

"Tell Sid," we said, "to sell the gas, to tempt the common man",
We patronised the worldly wise, purveyed our poison plan
The queues were long, the paper bought, investment or a scam
Getting richer, city slicker, pushing out the pram

You don't live in the living world of love, of life, of shit
Your money talks of have and hate, of pendulum and pit
So take your cash and market crash, your creed of bile and spew
Taking from the plenty and giving to the few"
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[User Picture]From: watervole
2007-05-09 01:52 pm (UTC)
Your actions after Eastercon are a perfect example of someone who is generous and warm-hearted and definitely NOT money-hungry. In this case, you helped myself and Henry, but I believe there are many other people you would have willingly helped in the same way.

I think we all seek money, but we all seek it for different reasons and in different ways. None of us can live without it.

You seek a work pattern that allows you to earn enough to meet your outgoings. Once you have enough, you have no desire to earn more.

I suspect there may be a perception that anyone who votes Conservative is 'money hungry', even though people have many different reasons for political views.

I'd say you have some life-habits that are expensive - a liking for gadgets and a lot of travel - it might be argued that this constitues 'money-hungry', but then I think you'd simply cut down on that aspect if you had lower income.

Feel free to unscreen.
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[User Picture]From: cpt_buggernuts
2007-05-09 12:32 pm (UTC)

unscreen if you wish

I won't pretend I now you well enough to say definitely that you're *not* a money hungry wanker. But neither have I seen anything that I can imagine making me jump to the conclusion that you were.
Or even suspect it, really.

And (while I don't write about it much on LJ) I'm a fairly politicised communist, so you'd think if there was enough evidence for anyone to buy into the 'Tory = grasping wanker' caricature, I'd presumably be right in there.
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[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 12:38 pm (UTC)

Re: unscreen if you wish

It's beginning to look very much as if the person concerned has conflated their perception of Tory attitudes and their perception of me as an individual.

If I'm to be charitable.
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[User Picture]From: gaspode
2007-05-09 01:02 pm (UTC)
All i can imagine is as some others have said - You've expressed tory views and invoices and also ties to the Masons in the past.

Some people are dicks and go by stereo types. Most of us know nothing is black and white - I suspect like you, I have views that some may consider right wing and some they may consider extreme left ..

As we have only had scattered and brief and or drunken conversations over the last few years I hardly feel i know you that well, but I do feel i can say money grabbing wanker is not the term that springs to mind when I see you ... not even when I think back to a certain chilly vodka incident ...
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[User Picture]From: mary919
2007-05-09 01:24 pm (UTC)
I don't know you at all, but I've noticed that when anyone says anything like "money-hungry wanker" it usually signals that the speaker/poster is jealous of the alleged "money-hungry wanker" in some way-- the implication being "I could be doing as well as he is if I were a money-hungry wanker too."

I find that statements like these have everything to do with the speaker/poster and how he feels about himself, and very little to do with honest perceptions of the victim. For what that's worth :) And you can unscreen :)
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[User Picture]From: julesjones
2007-05-09 03:11 pm (UTC)
You can unscreen this. What they all said.

My perception of you is that you are not in the least money-hungry. However, it would be possible for someone who strongly stereotypes to interpret your posts as evidence that you must be, because of course all Tories/Masons/contractors-who-ask-for-payment are. Which says a lot more about them than it does about you.
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(Screened comment)
[User Picture]From: dougs
2007-05-09 04:48 pm (UTC)
You can have another attempt by going here.
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From: jamesb
2007-05-09 08:00 pm (UTC)
lemme see. Feck screening.

well I don't know you as well as I would like to be able to comment on this.

YOu have always been a decent person, and I think you have bought me pints on occasion and am pretty sure I would consider you not mean or money hungry. I don't think we ever talked about money, and less about you being a conservative as much as girls, fun stuff, Science fiction and fannish stuff.

IT would be wrong to assume anything based on LJ comments and an indication of what in my mind seems to be wrong with LJ - er that's the people who use it wrong, that is. So if you do post about invoices, good for you, being in charge and responsible for your money is important, its your journal, and its rather wrong for anyone else to extrapolate what type of REAL person you are from journal posts.

do yu know this other person, and would they say that to your face.
More to the point, would they come on down to the Tun and say that to your face, cause it would start a really good fight, which would be cool, in a bad way...

J

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